How to be a Great Storyteller | Stories With Traction Podcast

SHOW NOTES:

PODCAST SUMMARY: This conversation was recorded in person in Spokane, Washington, with Claire Davis.  Claire and Matt discuss concepts on how you can be a great storyteller.

CLAIRE DAVIS BIO: Claire is a branding consultant who helps people write their stories.  The Stories With Traction podcast wouldn’t exist if it weren't for her.  Claire has been one of the most influential individuals when it comes to marketing, crafting messages, and getting stories to connect with an audience.

For more info, check out Claire HERE.

MATT ZAUN BIO: Matt is an award-winning speaker and storyteller who empowers organizations to attract more clients through the art of strategic storytelling. Matt’s past engagements have catalyzed radical sales increases for over 300 organizations that range from financial institutions to the health and wellness industry.

Matt shares his expertise in persuasion with executives, sales professionals, and entrepreneurs, who he coaches on the art of influence and how to leverage this for profits and impact.

For more info, check out Matt Zaun HERE.

*Below is an AI-generated transcript, which may contain errors

The episode you were about to listen to was recorded in person in Spokane, Washington with Claire Davis. Claire has been incredibly influential in my business when it comes to messaging when it comes to marketing, branding and getting stories to connect with an audience. In fact, if it wasn't for Claire, the stories retraction podcast would not exist. I'm so excited to share this conversation with you. Let's dive in. persuading people to take the actions we want can be hard. Our teams and clients are bombarded with 1000s of messages every single day. But there is a way for you to get above the noise stories. This is the story's attraction podcast and I'm your host Matt Zaun. Join my guests in the as we unpack the power of storytelling. We'll talk about topics like leadership, sales and marketing all through the lens of strategic storytelling. Enjoy this episode. Welcome to the podcast.

This is so fun. I feel like it's a long time coming because we haven't actually been in the same room for one and two we've never recorded live together. So this is a first for me. I know it's a first for you, though you do a lot of speaking live. So how is this feeling a little bit different?

This is great. No, it's interesting because we have done so many podcast episodes together virtually. So if I recall, and if I counted, right, it's somewhere in the neighborhood of 50 to 60. Yeah. So over the course of two years, we had a podcast launch every single week. And then there were a couple of months that we weren't doing that but we haven't we've had a lot of podcast episodes together. So it's really cool to do this in person. Yeah. Let's let's talk about the storytelling system that we've built over the last few years and what a system means when it comes to storytelling and how people listening can utilize that as well. So before we dive in, everyone admits that storytelling is important, right? I've never come across a human being that says storytelling is not important. No one should focus on right. I've never had that. Okay, so it doesn't matter what state I'm in. It doesn't matter what group of people I'm speaking to what side of the political aisle that I'm speaking to. Everyone agrees storytelling is extremely important. However, most people don't actually build out a system. We recognize systems are really important, but people don't build out a system for storytelling. So let's kind of kick off what what we did to build the story system that we have now and kind of leading up to it.

I think the first time that I recognized that intentional storytelling systems were necessary for my business and for my life, was when I was a really early business owner because I started to think, Okay, I want to share with more people what I do, but it gets pretty boring if you're talking about resume strategy all the time. So I remember when clubhouse came out, and I convinced you to just jump in a room so that we could get other entrepreneurs to come in the same place and just share what was working. And for those of you who remember us and clubhouse we have this room every week we call the Power Hour because called like the Power Hour mastermind and first and what was so neat about it was that people were incredibly willing to come and share their strategy. And so eventually, we started hosting guests, and then we hosted the guests. We quickly realized that there was a very big difference between those who had content that you've remembered later, the show flowed and people got a lot out of it. And those who maybe shared a great strategy, but it didn't stick. And for me, the stick the stickiness was all about storytelling. So that's the first time I recognize that not only is it really important, but you know we really need to harness these stories and put them somewhere so that we can use them again and really start to make inroads with other people with our strategy by giving them content in a way that actually sticks with them. Yeah,

and I appreciate you mentioning clubhouse because there are people listening that are gonna say, why even bring that up? I mean, clubhouse isn't what it used to be from a social network perspective. But we got the reps in, and that's the most incredible part in order to become masterful, which you are and what you do, it was rep after rep after rep. So there's a lot of repetition that goes into being a masterful storyteller. So before clubhouse, and I want people to realize this too, for the fallen that we built, built out on LinkedIn. There was a reason for that. Right? So we both were doing extensive networking in person COVID happened shut the world down. And then we we put our time, effort and abilities into LinkedIn. Because a lot of our prospects and clients were that and that was where we got the rep after rep after rep when I came to writing stories. And then he gave me the suggestion of going on clubhouse. I fought it. I thought it was ridiculous. The most ridiculous idea in the world just really hard. And then we dove into clubhouse and then again rep after rep and then the natural progression because we wanted it to be uploaded and people can listen to it again and again. At the time clubhouse was an offering that we transitioned to podcast. And then that's when the power hour podcast was born. And then we went from

Yeah, something I remember early on was when we would have guests on and I started thinking like, okay, they're sharing these incredible strategies with us now in a podcast form which was so neat. And then after that, we could say hey, now from this strategy that was shared, here are these key takeaways. But I always wanted examples. So for me the stories became really important because it was even teaching me how I was going to implement what I was learning because I'd be able to actually remember it because of the way they would tell it in a storytelling form. So when you talk about a storytelling system, can you kind of share since this is really your wheelhouse as a story telling strategist, Story Strategist. Can you tell us a little bit about you know when you are talking to someone who's new to storytelling, and you're saying, well listen, like us, you've got stories. One you need to mine them and find them. And two, you got to put them somewhere so they start to build so what's your process that you lead people through?

So one of the most important things any organization or individual can do is establish what I call a story bank. Having a story bank, you're literally making deposits into the story bank so you can make withdrawals out a story bank is not figurative, it is literal. So a story bank is you you set up systematic documentation so that once you share a powerful story, you are immediately documenting that story for future use. Okay? So that's what when I say storytelling system, that is what I'm referring to. So let's compare it to a traditional bank account. So people make deposits and so they can make withdrawals and they amass money is the goal of adding to a bank account. The same is true when it comes to a story back. So I always recommend start now, because it will continue to grow and grow and grow and then two years down the line. You could have hundreds if not 1000s of stories in that story bank that you can use for sales, marketing staff meetings. That you can continually go back to, what

would you say, you know, if you were to think about sort of the crux or the or even the beginning, really, of when this was driven for you and your life, like what was the first story that you remember was a big impact on your childhood I know I know, I've heard a lot about your grandfather making a huge impact on you. Martin Luther King, obviously somebody that you greatly admire as well. But what was the first story you remember that you were like? Yeah, that's what I knew I'd be stories, right.

Alright, so the first story that I'm thinking about was one that was an absolute disaster for me personally, and I think sometimes pain is a great motivator. And it's something that we're very much remember. So for me, I had just landed a job working for a very influential politician, and I was told that this job was going to be data and research focused that was gonna involve very little human interaction. I was not a people person. At that time. I hated being in front of people. I failed my public speaking course in college. I literally got the worst grades. I didn't even finish because I get my first speech. It went horrific. And I remember going into the back of the room and sitting down and saying, I'll take the app. So I hated being in front of people and doing any kind of public speaking, which is kind of funny because that's what I do as a profession today. But I was working for this gentleman, and I was involved in a research project. For him. And he said to me, Hey, I have something to do on such and such a day. There's a group of people that are meeting that want answers in regard to this project. Okay, and I'll never forget, he looked at me and he said, but I just want you to be aware, the people at this meeting, despise the ideas surrounding this, and they hate me as a person. So more than likely death by association. They're gonna hate you, too. Oh, no,

Choose your words very, very wisely. And it was, as you can imagine, a disaster. I couldn't sleep leading up to the meeting, that this meeting took place and you know, sweaty palms, I was stuttering. I didn't know what to say. And I remember running back to my car, slamming the door and yelling at the top of my lungs, that will never happen again. I'm going to learn how to connect with people. So that's when I shifted my focus and this obsession started in May where it was how to some people connect and some fall flat. And I recognized everyone had a reoccurring theme. It doesn't matter what leader that you point to that can be vibrant and rah rah and get people's attention and inspire it all came down to storytelling, where are they masterful at storytelling? And then I realized, all I need to do is study storytelling, and then I'm going to be able to connect with

audiences. So your storytelling really came from studying other people doing great storytelling, and then you picked it apart to figure out okay, what are the elements here that are at play?

Yeah, so I picked it apart to figure out what they were doing. And then because I was already in the political world, and I was working for different politicians, and I had those relationships. I was sharing with them different things that they can do. And then that's when I started the speech writing journey. And I've done political speech writing for over a decade for numerous politicians, basically sharing with them do this and you will will experience this. For me personally, I was going to events and I was testing things before I wouldn't recommend it to that. So every single day that I could speak at under the sun, whether it was a networking event, whether different organizations allow certain speakers to come in. There were a story slams sort of slams take place across the country in different cities. I would go to every single one I possibly could and I was just testing, testing, testing testing, because for me, personally, I felt better if I failed. I could figure out what to do so that my clients would have Yeah, and then figure it out different aspects of storytelling and then it went on from there.

I love that because I think so often when we're going to try something new, particularly when it feels scary, and public speaking, as we all know is like second only to death and the sheer fear that we feel before it for most people. But what I love about that is that you jumped in to try it and get the reps in. And I think that's the best, fastest way to learn. Whereas a lot of people will approach it differently where they're like, Okay, well let me study this. Let me study the, you know, let me use a framework already. Right, and I know I'm going to be great at it right away. But the reality is, as with anything I mean, pick a topic. It's all about getting the reps in and feeling a little and trying again, and I'm a firm believer in that quote of, you never really lose. You either win, or you learn and that's a that's a huge piece. I think that came from those early days in clubhouse in the early transition with the podcast because I didn't know what I was doing in front of a audio room, much less a camera. If you honestly had asked me five years ago, even if I would have sat in front of a camera and walked you through anything, be it resume strategy or how to bake sourdough bread. I would have said no, no, you're absolutely talking about somebody else. But I think what's really cool about your story and about how this system oh really developed was we just jumped in and we learned some things along the way. And we got the reps in and now what used to feel very daunting. So in this case, a building a story bank, like you're like you're talking about. I would think gosh, like, What stories do I really have, you know, and I'd sit at my computer and I'd say Okay, I'm gonna write a story right? Now. And I'll even pick something to write about, right about, you know, grit and determination or coming back from a failure or something. And it would take me an hour plus, and I'd be hemming and hawing and really trying to get the meaning out of it. And now it's like a muscle. It's like I can sit down at a computer and say, I'm going to pump out some stories. I'm going to really kind of go back through my experience, and think about what somebody needs to hear today or think about a specific topic. And I'm actually really quickly able to write those stories now, which before it took me forever, but now it's it's like a muscle. It's like something you practice. Sure. Yeah.

Yeah. And I think it's interesting because if you're not willing to look silly, it's gonna be agonizing for you. Because in order to be creative, you need to look a little silly. Yeah. And I think it's really important. It doesn't matter who it is that they recognize that it could be a C suite executive needs to recognize that they want to be a masterful storyteller. They need to tap into creativity. And that to your point, if you're writing a story, like an email from start to finish, you're going to really struggle if you tap into creativity and you have a solid foundation then you can build around. So it's almost like an A musical artist that is cranking out songs. The songs that you see on a an on an album. It's not that they just wrote 10 songs and that's what you're seeing. They've gone through hundreds of songs, and they nixed the ones that weren't the top top that they put out. And the same is true of storytelling. People actually they adult, they'll figure out a couple of stories and they're like, this is what I did. These are my stories, and then they'll try to connect and it doesn't go anywhere. So you need to build a lot of stores to get to the ones that have the precision and that can actually do what you want it to do. That

makes so much sense and it reminds me of Lizzo the artist not that I thought I'd bring her up today, but I love her music. And what made me adore her even more was I was listening to an interview after she wants some major award. I think it was a Grammy and she said this album was many years in the making, but also she wrote over 200 songs and ended up with 12 Wow. So really, I mean that speaks to a ton of time getting in there feeling silly creating something and then just distilling it down to the stuff that really really connects So maybe let's talk about it. Like what did we find after all this time and all of these podcasts, your what are the things that really, in your opinion, make stories stick and connect with other people? Because there's a difference between great storytelling and great storytelling that you've remember? Sure.

So let's talk about the process quick and then we'll get to what really designates, is it a good story or not? Okay, so you just mentioned you know, 200 songs for her to get 12 And then you also mentioned that public speaking is one of the most prevalent fears that people have that humans have. So the question that I had when it came to this was how do you supercharge the ability to get over? Get over a fear of public speaking? Okay. There is a way to do it. And people listening are not going to like the answer. You have to go through a tremendous amount of discomfort and you need to you need to supercharge that discomfort. So when I was early on in my journey when it came to public speaking, I went out of my way to embarrass myself, because the idea is if you're pulling something and you're stretching something out, you stretch, it's so hard, it doesn't go back to its original state. So how can you embarrass yourself as much and as quickly as possible? Okay, so for me what that entailed was, I would do what we consider to be really stupid, right? Like just go in and doing stupid effects. Okay, so as an example, I gave a motivational speech at a comedy club to a roomful of drunk people. Yeah, it did not go over well. It I'm getting booed. I'm getting like run off the stage. And it was really embarrassing. Yeah. But then when I spoke the following day to a group of business leaders, it was a cakewalk. And I was like, How do I supercharge that? So then I started getting involved in improv comedy. So I mean, you've known me for years. I'm not the funniest human being in the world. So I really struggled when it came to income. So I was doing I did it for four years, and I was in a traveling group where we would go and we'd have sold out crowds. So I would be in front of you know, hundreds of people under bright lights and the way improv works. It's not stand up comedy where you have stuff prepared and you go through the same, you know, stick. It is people throwing suggestions at you from the audience, and you just rolling with

Oh, wow, like Whose Line Is It Anyway?

Exactly. The problem that I had is you really need to be up on pop on pop culture, like as much as possible. So someone asks something and you don't know you're up there, you're gonna look like an idiot. So there were numerous times I look like a complete fool. But the beauty of it was I recognize this is getting my reps in because if I'm willing to look stupid here, then when I am giving a business talk, it's gonna go much, much easier. So I recommend to everyone listening. If you want to take five years to get over your public speaking then do it how everyone else does it agonizingly slow. If you want to supercharge it, figure out how to go and get involved in different clubs, different organizations, and get to the point of being embarrassed, embarrassed as quickly as you can to supercharge that so you can be a better storyteller. Now to answer your question, how do we how do we know that it's landing? We can we can kind of test drive our stories when it comes to social media. So we are at a time in human history where we can almost get instant feedback. And that instant feedback we can recognize is it really connecting with an audience or is it not? So because you know everyone listening recognizes that I Lincoln's my my social media platform of choice, I talked about LinkedIn quite often. That's for me, so it can be for whatever whatever someone's use. It can be for any social media platform, but for me personally, LinkedIn actually made me a better storyteller. I'll share it, no doubt because I'm putting stuff in the real world sometimes. I think it's a really good story, but it falls flat. And then sometimes I'm sharing a story that I think's Good, okay. And it goes many viral and like people are commenting like crazy and it really connected. So then I take that and I add it into my talk. So I'll take that and add it into a workshop or a keynote. So I'm using social media as a testing ground to do that.

What you know, what I really liked about that is that it really opens up the playing field for everybody. Sure, so it's no longer oh my gosh, you know, man is a Story Strategist. Of course, he's practicing this art and of course, he's incredible. With storytelling. Anybody can do this stuff. And that's what I tell folks who are trying to tell stories for their career, that it's not just the marketing folks who have a great story to tell. In fact, if they take a little bit of time, they can unearth what it is about them that makes them really great. And if they do it in story form, that's where they set themselves apart significantly. But before we go on, I want to dispel the myth right now that Matt Zaun is very funny, and let's just keep rolling back. You remind what you said also reminded me of when I was first starting to write content on social media, and I was not a big fan of social media, in the least, for a variety of reasons. But then when 2020 rolled around, and I was starting my business, I knew it was a necessity that I had to get comfortable with because that's the only way that I could reach my clients and my clients are people who are looking for great jobs. But you know, they're not walking around Spokane. They're online. That's where I'm gonna meet people who need help with a resume. And so I remember one day I was writing a post and I just couldn't get it right, like the story for me. It wasn't quite coming across as I wanted it to. And I told myself, write the worst story possible. Just write something and let it be really bad. You know, let it be not great. Don't have expectations on and just get it out there. Because the more that I do this, I'm sure that either when I'm laying in bed that night and rethinking it in my mind and saying, oh gosh, I wish it would have changed this or that. Or if I'm like we all should listening to the feedback from our you know, our audience on a social media platform. That's what will help to refine the storytelling. And so it reminded me a little bit of your story there because if you just start getting those reps in are really the way that you can start to refine the strategy in anything and especially public speaking. I was listening to Grant Cardone the other day and you know, I love him. And he was also talking about what is what are you willing to sacrifice? So when it comes to posting content online when it comes to interviewing when it comes to public speaking, that's a lot of really high stakes. Conversation right there that will really make most people terrified. And there's nothing wrong with that. Let's just keep our human interest in survival and keeping ourselves comfortable. But what's, what happens is that that old adage of nothing great came out of comfort zones is really true. And grant talks a lot about your work are you willing to sacrifice and in this case, sacrifice that comfort so that you can get the reps so that you can be uncomfortable on stage or you can throw out your improv jokes the best you can and see what happens, because otherwise, there's really no way to grow. Sure.

So here's here's something that's really dangerous, and I want people to recognize but you mentioned that the discomfort one of the issues that some people have is they can delegate things that make them uncomfortable. So I see this time and time again, like we're talking about social media. There's so many people that that I've worked with that they think that it's a joke, why would I be on it, I can have a team of people do that for me, and I'm not going to do that. And I always say to them, Do you really believe that have Steve Jobs delegated the storytelling aspect of Apple, that the company would be what it is today? There is no way Apple would be the companies today unless Steve Jobs understood marketing. He understood storytelling. He understood how to get on the stage and connect with people. So I think that leaders that want to be this masterful storytellers if they're not willing to get those reps and and all they do is delegate, and then they are surprised when they're at a staff meeting and they need to inspire their team. And they're not connecting with their team. It's because they don't have the reps and so it really goes back to what you said about consistency. It's how can we be unbelievably consistent so that means just having a post a week, and then going to a few times a week and maybe every day, and then I would encourage people to change the content so written and then utilize video all this is it is empowering you to get as many reps out as possible because the people that are listening this might think like I'm not gonna join an improv comedy group. I'm not gonna embarrass myself like that. Okay, well then, are you willing to embarrass yourself in the comfort of your own home, in your PJs, texting out something and then putting it on social media? Right, because I think it's important that there are people are able to do that. So when people are in person or they are speaking to a group of people they need to influence they've had those reps that's

so important. And I think probably where this leads me is to thinking about all right, we want to be brave. We want to tell stories, we want to try and get those reps in, but there have to be a certain there has to be a certain guardrail in place, depending on what your target is. So a lot of times I'll speak with a client who is looking to get into say, a VP of sales role for a med tech company. And they say, Well, hey, I'll just get out there on social media and I'll throw some of my personal stories on there and how I was mistreated by a boss and how I joined this company and it's not what I thought it would be, and then they wonder why down the line, there may be getting passed over for an interview, or they're maybe not getting hearing back from the people that they want to hear back from or they're experiencing a little bit of backlash based on that story. So if you were to if I were to ask you, okay, we're brave. Now. We want to we want to try as many stories as possible. What are some of the themes you would recommend better, almost like the safe zones for people to use so that they're putting stories out there, but they're also not going to shoot themselves in the foot. So

it's very important to recognize who your audience is. I mean, that's very simplistic, but very true, right. I think a lot of people have heard that. But we need to ask ourselves like the depths of what that audience is. So you and I have talked at nauseam over the last few years about someone's ICP slash C ideal client persona and your community. It's really important to dial into what that is. So what generation are they? What family dynamic? Do they have? What Where do they live? I think that's really important. I mean, I do a lot of my business in the US. I will tell you speaking in certain states is vastly different, right? Like, when I speak in New York City, it's not how I speak down in southern states. It's not always speak in Chicago. It's not always speak in Orange County, or there's different cultural differences as well. So to answer your question regarding from a posting perspective, if someone's trying to advance their career or get a specific job, they're targeting people they need to understand what stories land with those people.

It just made me think of this one story. Thinking about stories on a storytelling podcast. So let's talk a little bit about that system. So you have an idea of who the target is. We now are feeling brave enough to post some content and even in the comfort of our own home behind the screen, try out some of these stories out for size so we could just get the content out there. What do you recommend as far as frequency or maybe what do you recommend as far as a framework that people can start to use so that they can keep things consistent and really actually measure how it's going? So

it really depends on what the person is wired. So the wise to just test? They don't need to worry too much about that. They're just getting reps. Okay as someone truly wants to be excellent at branding and marketing different things that you've done over the last few years. That is when we're talking about a massive robust story bank, okay to be the top of your game when it comes to marketing. You're talking about tons and tons and tons of stories. When it comes to sales. It's not as many stories because then you have a sales process and you understand how long that process is how someone goes from prospect to client. Is that six months, is that a year? Is it over the phone? Is it on a virtual platform? Is it in person what stories are being shared during that process? There might be five to seven stories that go within a sales process, that those are your hit stories that you know, when you share that story, the likelihood that you're going to close a sale skyrockets, those are the stories that you're going to be using. So it really depends on how how someone wants the story to progress and what the why is at the end, do they want more? eyeballs on a screen? Do they want to close more sales and they want to get a different job all these are different why's that someone might have