Always Fall Forward | Stories With Traction Podcast

 

 

PODCAST SUMMARY: In this episode, Jacob Brown and Matt Zaun talk about how to turn failure into fuel for growth.

JACOB BROWN BIO: Jacob is a former NFL athlete turned entrepreneur, transformational speaker, and writer.

For more info, check out Jacob here:
https://www.linkedin.com/in/jacobaaronbrown/
https://failforwardbrown.com/


MATT ZAUN BIO: Matt is an award-winning speaker and storyteller who empowers organizations to attract more clients through the art of strategic storytelling. Matt’s past engagements have catalyzed radical sales increases for over 300 organizations that range from financial institutions to the health and wellness industry.

Matt shares his expertise in persuasion with executives, sales professionals, and entrepreneurs, who he coaches on the art of influence and how to leverage this for profits and impact.

For more info, check out Matt Zaun HERE. 

 

*Below is an AI-generated transcript, which may contain errors.

 

Matt Zaun (mattzaun.com)

Failure can sting.

Have you ever worked tirelessly on a project that you were passionate about? And at the end, you felt like nothing good came of it?

Anger can set in. What do we do with that intense frustration? How can we turn failure into fuel for growth?

That will be the main focus of this conversation. I'm excited because today I'm joined by Jacob Brown, who is a former NFL athlete turned entrepreneur, transformational speaker and writer.

He travels the globe speaking to corporations, colleges and sports teams about how they can take their failure and turn it into fuel for growth.

Welcome to the show, Jacob.

 

Jacob Brown (failforwardbrown.com)

Matt, thank you for inviting me. I've been looking forward to this and looking forward to this. That's a great conversation as well.

 

Matt Zaun (mattzaun.com)

I appreciate your time. I know you're extremely busy and I've seen a lot of your stuff over the last, I feel like it's been years and I'm very impressed.

I'm very impressed with just the level of engagement, with the level of inspiration and transformation that you bring when it comes to your trainings, when it comes to your workshops, keynote.

So I want to dive in and unpack all that. But I feel like we need to start where a lot of listeners minds have went to.

We have to start with the NFL piece. So before we get to your time with the Oakland Raiders, as well as the Pittsburgh Steelers, can you take us through almost like childhood?

Like, do you always envision being in the NFL?

 

Jacob Brown (failforwardbrown.com)

Did like, at what point where you're like, I'm going to be a professional athlete? Yeah, so one thing a lot of people don't know is my family, the Brown family, small family from Bridgeport, Michigan, which no one can do.

knows where that is. But a lot of people know where Franky Mutha are in Burch Run. Bridgeport is another small town very close right off of Maine Highway.

And in my family, three of my family members, myself, my uncle Monty and my younger brother Ike, all made it to the NFL.

In fact, my my uncle Monty, who was about 12 years older than me, he actually played in two Super Bowls.

He ran the four team where they lost to the Dallas Cowboys for the fourth Super Bowl in a row.

And then he played for the New England Patriots in the 96-97 where they lost to the Packers. So growing up watching my uncle Monty play football from high school to college to to the NFL, was something that obviously sparked something inside of me that said I can do that too, right?

I played quarterback my whole middle school high school career central Michigan was the Only school that did not want me to play quarterback.

They wanted me to play wide receiver and that transition to a wide receiver Wow, I played play that for three years tore my Cl my into my third year set up my fourth year Came back my fifth year and played under a gentleman called named uh, brian kelly who was the head Football coach for the lsu tigers now was the head football coach for the noradame uh irish and uh for the last 10 almost 11 years and um He turned me into a tight end which was a grom style tight end back in 2005 And I had a breakout season breakout season.

I went down to miami to train for uh, the the combine and for my pro day With chris carter.

I was down in miami training for two and a half months with the legendary chris carter from the minnesota Vikings and um during draft day, that's when a lot of things changed and uh I was I was meant to go late rounds.

Um, and I ended up not going in the draft, but I was picked up by the Oakland Raiders as an undrafted free agent.

And I went out there and spent many camp with them and shortly after many camp, I was cut. Cut for what would, what would, what seemed to be the first time I had ever been cut from any sports team my whole life.

And I was, I was, you know, running routes next to Randy Moss and Warren Sapp was the only other side of the ball and Aaron Brooks was throwing me passes and I'm wearing the number 19 jersey.

I've got a Raiders helmet and I'm in, I've made it, right? I've made it at that point. But I didn't know shortly after I'd get cut and have to go home and find a job working in a CNC machine plant making nine bucks an hour.

And that's when the humbling experience began. So, uh, it's a there's a lot to unpack with what you said.

 

Matt Zaun (mattzaun.com)

So I want to, I want to Caroline. To give him the option. That would be my gave wheel. More love idea if you live in the NFL.

So you mentioned your uncle Montes so clearly, your uncle was a hero of yours, at least. Something to strive for when you were cut because a lot of times I See a lot of people they go through failure and there's like a linking between almost like a shame and a guilt Yeah, but when you were cut did you experience?

some element of shame where You so badly want it to do this like this is part of a family your cut did you have to do you have to unpack elements of shame?

 

Jacob Brown (failforwardbrown.com)

Absolutely shame guilt. I felt not good enough felt like I let my family down my friends down From the time I was in middle school to high school to college I had friends that were always backing me always supported me they would come travel and watch me play and you know once I've made it to the NFL and was caught that's when I felt the first ounce of failure and Not just feeling that I feel but felt as a failure As well because my identity and everything that I had done up to that point as a 22 year old young

Man, revolved around football. That was my identity. That's who I believed that I was meant to be and to do.

I believe that that was my purpose. So when I was cut, all of those dreams went away and the shame, the guilt, the feeling of not good enough, all of those thoughts came.

And I was, I was depressed for about a month and a half before a wise old man told me I needed to get back on my feet and start life again.

So that's when things start to shift.

 

Matt Zaun (mattzaun.com)

So it's interesting talking about those keywords, right? Failure and success. Because clearly, you were a unbelievable success just to even walk on that field, right?

So let's put this in perspective for people. So just to train with other NFL athletes, what does that take?

 

Jacob Brown (failforwardbrown.com)

Let's take us through high school athletes, college, and then all. Ultimately getting the NFL. I'm guessing it's very very rare that that even happens.

It's very rare It's very rare to be a starter in your high school to be quite honest and a lot of people take that stuff for granted Very rare to get a college scholarship to go play collegiate sports A lot of people take that for granted because I mean the percentages from high school to college are one in a thousand the percentages from From college to the NFL are one in seventy thousand.

I mean you're you are you are teetering a fine line to make it to that next level And those who do make it to the next level of any sport is it's it's an accomplishment It's very rare and there is a big difference between those that make it and don't make it and that big difference is what your mindset is Right sure.

What is your mindset? Towards the game. What is your mindset towards yourself? And that's when you when it gets hard when you finally get cut or when that sport goes away that you've tied so

So much of your mindset, so much of your time to, because you believe that you've wasted all that time, but that's one thing about failure is when you fail, it doesn't mean that the progress that you've made just goes away and you start from zero.

Right. And that's one reason why I mentioned failing forward, failing forward, for me, came back in 2006 when I was getting ready to go to the NFL.

I went and visited my hot down in Atlanta. And she asked me what happens in football, it doesn't work out.

And I said, well, football's gonna work out. I've already got teams talking to me and she says, well, what happens if it doesn't?

And I told her, I said, well, I'll just fall back on when I was getting my degree and at the time, graphic and web design.

She says, well, if you're gonna fail or fall, always fall forward. And as soon as she said that in football, we're taught when we get tackled to always fall forward.

And the reason is because you gain the extra yards that you otherwise wouldn't have. And if you get tackled on the one yard line and you fall forward, what happens?

You score touchdown. Right. So even though So in your failure, you can still succeed if you fail forward. If you take the inertia, if you take the energy, take the knowledge and fall forward, you can still gain.

And a lot of people believe once they start a business or they start a journey of weightlifting or losing weight or whatever it might be and they fail, they believe that everything that they have done before is just gone.

It's not. It's not eliminated, right? That progress is still there. You've still gotten to that point and you can still feel forward.

You can take that knowledge. You can take that interview and that inertia that you built up to get to that point and use it for the next, the next thing that you go after.

 

Matt Zaun (mattzaun.com)

So that's that's failing forward. Yeah. And you bring up a really good point because I feel like success is subjective, right?

Absolutely listening to this episode that they're unbelievably successful in business and yet they still feel in areas inadequate. Like they have inferiority complex, like their failure.

years, but yet they may be at the peak of success in their industry. They may not be achieving the kind of goals that they want in the time that they're doing it, but it's just objective, right?

So you have tremendous grit. You, you, you, you were successful in college ball, you get on that NFL field, you're, you're catching balls from from great, great athletes that are doing extraordinary work in their field.

And yet, okay, you get caught, but you're still very, very successful. You take that grit and then you start the process of applying it to the business space.

I love that, I love that element of fail forward. So just to debunk a couple of this really quick, and then we can move on.

There's more from my son, because my son listens to my podcast. He's going to be maybe doing something in the future, and he keeps talking about the NFL because we watch games on Sundays.

He's naturally interested. Okay. I, and just so you know, so when I was in high school, I did play football and my high school football coach used to play in the NFL.

He was a middle linebacker for the Washington Redskins. Okay. So Johnny Watson, best coach I've ever had in my life.

He is, he was phenomenal. I mean, he taught me so many business lessons.

 

Jacob Brown (failforwardbrown.com)

This guy taught me so many lessons.

 

Matt Zaun (mattzaun.com)

He was a middle linebacker for the Redskins. But he wasn't making the kind of money that they're making now.

Right. And he also had the battle and injury. He, he injured his arm very badly, tore his bicep muscles.

So it was almost not useless, but very, very low strength of one of his arms. And he had to tell us to, going from the NFL, then I believe he ended up working at UPS.

And then from there became a teacher and he was a phenomenal teacher. Right. And he's taught, I don't even know.

I'm a student over the years pouring into people's lives, making the community around them better. But he would always tell us the stats in the NFL.

And like, there's so few people that make that great flash type money that he would always tell us about focusing on our studies, focusing on other elements in case the dreams of these high school football players didn't work out.

So what kind of advice would you give to a young student that maybe they're showing some really good signs of being an athlete?

What would you say to them regarding not to squash their dream, but at the same time, just so there's more clarity?

 

Jacob Brown (failforwardbrown.com)

So I got this question not too long ago during a talk where a college football player stood up and he had retired from college football because of an injury.

And he asked, he said, how do you find your identity after football? And I told him the sooner. that you can realize that you are not a football player, but you are a human being that plays football.

And that your purpose is not just football, right? So a lot of kids, even as good as they are from middle school, high school, college, they believe that their purpose is playing football.

They believe that their purpose is to make it to the NFL. And they believe that their purpose is to make it to the NFL and make millions of dollars and do these dances after they score a touchdown.

And you know, play on Monday night football, and that's not their purpose. They might be talented, they might have a gift, they might be fast, they might be strong, but at the end of the day, the sooner they can figure out that they're not a football player, they're not a softball player, they're not a basketball player, but they just so happen to have that talent.

But their purpose in life is something else. Now, they can use that sport to fulfill their purpose, right? Their purpose is to support the poor or helping people out.

out of addiction or helping people with their finances or designing the next building that's going to be a skyscraper in downtown Chicago, that might be their purpose.

But their avenue to get there could be the platform of football that will give them the spotlight to be able to fulfill their purpose.

Right. And one thing that I learned as soon as I was cut was I believe my identity was tied to football.

That was not my identity. Right. There was so much more for me to do. At the end of the day, I'm a motivator.

I was a leader. I had a lot of players and coaches even that followed me that listened to my words that understood my passion for people because that was my purpose.

And I even used that even throughout my all of my football years. My purpose was a football. My purpose was to motivate and encourage people at the end of the day to do and go after dreams that they never otherwise would have done if if they hadn't heard or shifted their mindset.

towards that. So, make sure that your son, yeah, yeah, make sure your son understands what his his passion and purpose is outside of football.

And the sooner he can get to that, the even better player he will be because he'll understand why he's using this platform.

 

Matt Zaun (mattzaun.com)

Wow, I love that. I love that you're a human being that plays football. That's awesome. And that can go so deep, doesn't it?

Because even in business, we tie ourselves to what we're doing, right? Or how much we're selling or how much we're delivering for our clients.

But in essence, we're human beings that are doing good within our space. We might be making a huge difference in the community.

But back to your point about tying our identity into that, that's almost where the shame comes, right? Because when it when it falls, so to speak, that's the element of shame, because our identities ties so heavily into that.

So I really appreciate what you said. I want to talk about the up and down though. So you mentioned so you you get cut from the Oakland Raiders.

Now you're getting paid. Not what you want to be. getting paid right lower lower wage job. But wasn't wasn't there a moment where you felt a little bit of hope as well.

So you you had another team was the Pittsburgh Steelers that was looking at you know, can you take us through that?

 

Jacob Brown (failforwardbrown.com)

Yeah, so about six months, six to eight months after being cut, I did get a new agent and my agent got me to work out with the Pittsburgh Steelers who just so happened to be my favorite football team of all time, even still today.

I've always wanted to play for the Steelers always wanted to play specifically from Bill Cowell. And the day that the Steelers flew me out for my workout back in January of 2007, Bill Cowell retired that exact same day.

Wow. And he actually did a press conference. So right after my workout, and I had a fantastic workout, I had a press conference, Bill Cowell had a press conference and he retired that day.

And then shortly after Mike Tomlin was hired as a head coach. Well, Mike Tomlin decided to go with a another player that year that was actually working out.

the same time I was and that was the end of my football career I basically gave up on the NFL after that and gave up on my football dreams and um but yeah there were there were some peaks and valleys and there were some times where I thought okay I was cut from the Raiders but there's still a chance right and there's and there's also still a chance for me to play for a team that is my favorite team right just so it happens so that that that started a pattern of what always seems perfect isn't always perfect right there are times where things look perfect for you but you'll later find out that they weren't right and I've got I've got a trust guys timing I've got to trust his plan of whatever that might be and it's probably better off than I did not play football looking back you know I love sitting in my nice office right now um sitting behind a camera to speak to people and speaking to people on stage is a lot safer and and I can play with my kids now so

You never know what type of injuries might happen while you're playing the game. So I'm very happy with where I am now.

 

Matt Zaun (mattzaun.com)

Wow, that's so powerful. So what always seems perfect isn't always perfect. That's really important for people to recognize. So I recently had a gentleman on this podcast, Don Schmeke, and he made a comment to me that was fascinating.

He said a lot of times people are so focused on the different tactics in their business and life that they're not focused on the ultimate strategy.

And basically, there's so many people that there's this long-term vision and strategy, but yet we get so bogged down into the smaller tactics.

And for you, I mean, you're helping and transforming thousands and thousands of lives now. So your reach is probably potentially even bigger than if you would have made this team, right?

100%. And it stinks, doesn't it? It stinks. But yet look at what you're doing now versus what you could have been doing and it's incredible was was the second blow worse Or do you think that because you were cut?

 

Jacob Brown (failforwardbrown.com)

From the okraves you it wasn't as much of a sting I would say the sting came the hardest from the Raiders Yeah, the second the second blow I was Not numb to it, but I understood the business Of the NFL and I understand now that it's a business You know and in the beginning you I believed and a lot of players believe that they can just be really good and Play really hard and they'll make it, but that's not the truth right.

That's not even the truth in the business world Right, but it's not so much about who you know, it's all about who knows you and that's the it's the same thing within the business world it's about who knows you and what impact you can make and what other people believe in you Wow Wow.

Well, thank you for sharing that.

 

Matt Zaun (mattzaun.com)

I appreciate that so why is something that you're currently working on now, that you feel like because of this failure, because of everything you went through with you, you know, you're working so hard, you reached a very high peak of success in the college world, and then you were cut.

Is there something that you carry with you day in and day out that has transformed where you are right now based on this experience?

 

Jacob Brown (failforwardbrown.com)

Yeah, so I went through a long period of time of two different things, believing that I wasn't good enough because I was cut because I failed because I had failed businesses or whatnot in the beginning of my career.

And I believed in my mind that I could not reach a certain potential or level of performance because of that, which was false.

It was just false, a false narrative that I was feeding myself. I also went through that period of imposter syndrome, right?

Everyone has imposter syndrome. But I went through a period where I was. allowing myself to listen to that voice in the back of my head, which stopped me from applying for those jobs that I believe that I could I wanted to have.

It stopped me from from creating those businesses that I thought I had good ideas for. It stopped me from going after that promotion that I believed that I really deserved, right?

So now that I'm on the other side and understand how life works, how the mind works and how positive reinforcement and positive speak works for you.

And manifestation also works. Now I teach other people to do that earlier than I learned it, right? And give them practical examples of how powerful the mind is and what we tell ourselves.

One of my favorite quotes you've probably seen me posted is speak what you seek until you see what you've said, right?

Now when I was when I was in middle school and high school, my mom would tell me, hey, lay on your back before a football game, close your eyes, envision yourself throwing a touchdown and envision yourself making the game winning throw, envision yourself making a game winning tag.

And once I got into the game, those things would happen for me and they came easy because I'd already seen myself and envision myself doing those things successfully before it happened.

This is where vision boards come from. People put together vision boards at the beginning of the year because they want to envision themselves achieving, attaining, or accomplishing certain goals or whatever it might be.

And the reason is because once you trigger your mind to believe that you can have these things and you deserve these things, your body and your soul start to follow those as well.

So envisioning manifestation, those are things that I teach as well in some of my talks.

 

Matt Zaun (mattzaun.com)

Yeah, so let's talk about the imposter syndrome that you mentioned. I find this fascinating. I've had the opportunity now to speak in almost every US state, multiple companies, industries, a lot of decision makers.

So yoes, deep he's. It's amazing is regardless of what level someone is success wise quote unquote. Everyone has an inferiority complex in some way, shape or form.

I mean, I've, I've had the opportunity to meet with individuals that I've put on pedestals that I think that they're the peak, peak top.

And yet they still have some level of an inferiority complex. So I appreciate you mentioning that imposter syndrome. So from the visualization perspective, I find this fascinating because you mentioned envisioning different things in sports.

And I've read about a lot of athletes that do this. I mean, Michael Jordan, one included, he would envision scoring again and again and again.

And clearly he has a track record of backup that that works, right? But it's amazing how this doesn't correlate as much in business because people aren't grabbing a hold of it.

I don't know if they find it silly or they, they think that it's almost like. Pointless, like you understand the importance and.

Everyone in the sports world is under at least the great to understand the importance.

 

Jacob Brown (failforwardbrown.com)

Why do you think that a lot of business leaders are unwilling to spend time visualizing? Yeah, I believe that some business leaders, one thing I have noticed is that leaders that have played sports in the past understand the power of the mindset, the power of belief in believing things and the will to win, willing yourself to do things and pushing yourself past that wall of pain to succeed and do things that you otherwise didn't think your body could even do.

I do think leaders that played sports have an easier time accepting that type of talk and that type of thought process in those concepts.

But those leaders that have not been in a situation where all they had to do or all they could do was depend on something higher than them.

Right? A lot of times people had to depend on their abilities, their gifts. to get to where they are.

So they don't really believe that there's something outside of themselves that can help push them, whether it's the universe, whether it's their God, whether it's their higher power, whatever it might be.

They don't really believe that positive mindset can push them and can create things for them that otherwise wouldn't endorse that otherwise wouldn't be there.

Right? That's that's my experience with it that I've noticed. I do notice that people that have played sports in the past, specifically at a higher level, do have an easier time understanding those concepts and also applying them.

 

Matt Zaun (mattzaun.com)

Right?

 

Jacob Brown (failforwardbrown.com)

Sure. One example that I that I give during so much talks is an example of these two doctors, these surgeons in Paris, they did a study on their patients after thoracic surgery.

After after this very invasive surgery, they would sit by the bed side of half of the patients and they let them know, hey, we've administered morphine and see

your IV. After about an hour, you shouldn't feel any pain. We're going to bring you back in about a month.

We want to report on your pain levels. The other patients, they did not sit by their bedside. They just simply administered the morphine into their IV and sent them home.

Right? After about a month, they brought back both sets of patients. The patients that they told reported almost no pain level.

The patients that they did not tell like at the exact same morphine level reported higher levels of pain. Now, why?

Because what we're told and what we tell ourselves, our bodies tend to believe, our minds tend to believe. And if your mind doesn't know that there was something administered to stop your pain, it's not going to recruit the healing properties that can start healing your body.

You've heard of the placebo effect, right? You've heard the placebo pill, the dummy pill. A lot of people believe that they're getting better.

A lot of people believe that they're losing weight. A lot of people believe that they're getting better. anyway, a lot of people believe they deserve that job or whatever it might be.

Therefore, it becomes a reality for them because your perspective is your reality, right? And that example of these doctors that tell these patients and don't tell these patients is a great example of how powerful our mindset is.

That has nothing to do with sports, but has everything to do with science and chemistry and your body and how we can heal ourselves, right?

Based on what we believe.

 

Matt Zaun (mattzaun.com)

Sure. You know, one of the things that just spoke to me while you're talking is, we've been talking a lot about sports, NFL, and what's amazing is we are a society that's into prep.

We prep for almost everything, but it's interesting that in this specific instance, when it comes to business, we don't focus as much on the prep.

So here's what I mean by that. I just started running again. I'm starting to get back in shape as much as I can.

I need to make that more of a priority. Like we're all busy, right? I have to make them a priority.

I wouldn't dream of not doing prep work because I don't want to injure myself, right? I need to stretch.

I need to do some exercises before I run. If I were to paint a bedroom in my house this upcoming weekend, I wouldn't dream of not putting stuff on the carpet and taping stuff off, right?

Because we're in, we're a society into prep work. But then when it comes to putting our minds in a position to succeed in business, there's no prep work.

A lot of people find some of these exercises or some of these thoughts silly. So what would you say?

What's maybe one thing you would tell to a business leader that maybe an exercise they could do like a mental exercise or like the whole visualization piece, they'd be visualizing before going and presenting to their team.

Like what would you say from a prep work perspective?

 

Jacob Brown (failforwardbrown.com)

One thing that they could do to start the process of getting their mind aligned with where they want to be.

the reality to be. Yeah. So one of my really good friends, Hodge Fleming's created a brand called the Modern Athlete, the Modern Athlete.

And he describes the Modern Athlete as that entrepreneur, business owner, young professional that is going into the workplace. Now just what you mentioned, how do you prepare yourself as though you're an athlete, right?

You're going to run a marathon, you're going to prepare, you're going to practice, you're going to run, you're going to eat, you're going to have a great nutrition package.

If you're a football player, you're going to work out, you're going to prep, you're going to prepare for the game, right?

How do you prepare for the game in the corporate world, right? A lot of that preparing for the game is exactly what you're talking about.

What do you do in the morning before you start, right? How do you prepare your mind to have a successful day?

How do you prepare your team to have a successful day? I've heard of those teams, they were there, where their boss comes in and just walk straight to his office.

He doesn't stop and say hi to anyone, right? He doesn't stop. I find anyone, he doesn't say anything, but then he expects them to perform as though they're just going to perform.

Right. One of my favorite quotes is if you take care of your people, the people take care of the business and the business will take care of itself.

Right. That is prep work. What do you have to do in order to make sure your team feels seen, her love taken care of, right?

You have to do the prep work. Whether it's meditation in the morning, whether it's positive reading, whether it's sharpening your blade, your mind, as you're during during the rest.

I'll talk a little bit about the rest and how even outside of sports, our bodies and our minds need rest.

But it's not just sitting and watching Netflix or eating popcorn and drinking pop, right? It's what does that active rest look like when you're not actively pitching, when you're not actively putting together analytics or business plans?

What does that active rest look like? Are you watching tutorials on YouTube? It might be better and sharpen your blade, your mind.

Are you reading the books that you need to? That might be, that might better prepare you to be a better leader when you do go back to work, right?

What does your rest phase look like? That is the prep work that I do, that I coach other people to do as well, is what are you doing during your rest?

 

Matt Zaun (mattzaun.com)

That's awesome. So you mentioned what you do coaching wise. Can you talk a little bit more about that?

 

Jacob Brown (failforwardbrown.com)

So your keynotes, your workshops, your coaching, what are some of the things that you focus on? Yeah, a lot of the things that I focus on are doing the root work.

I don't like to just paint makeup on a pig, right? What is it that's stopping you from being the leader that you really need to be?

Whether it's your home life, whether it's your personal life, whether it's your habits that you might have, right? One of the things that I fell into is alcoholism.

For a long period of time, alcoholism was destroying the way that I lived, breathed, treated my family, treated my colleagues, treated my employees.

I was not the man that I wanted to be, needed to be, because... because I was focused on the wrong things at the wrong times, right?

I just celebrated 20 months of sobriety yesterday. And congratulations. Thank you. Thank you. And having a sober, very clear mind has helped me not only be a better leader and a coach and a speaker, but it's also helped me be a better husband, a father and a colleague as well.

So what is the root work that you have to do? Because there's always something that's stopping someone from going after their dreams from leaving their team the way they should, from starting the business, starting the book, whatever it might be.

What is it that's stopping you? And I had to go back in my life to say, okay, where did this come from?

Why did it start? What do I need to do in order to make amends? Or what do I need to do in order to change the trajectory of my life from this point on instead of just stuffing the things that are from my past?

 

Matt Zaun (mattzaun.com)

Because a lot of times that's what it is. Wow. That root work is so powerful. Because a lot of times we like to throw band-aids on stuff and best.

Absolutely. very surfacing. We got to get down to that root. The root causes. So thank you. I appreciate that.

And thank you so much for your time today. I very much appreciate your time. I have some big takeaways from this conversation.

Okay. I know a lot of leaders probably got other takeaways, but I got three in particular that I'm going to be focusing on.

I really appreciate what you said regarding identity. You had talked about you had worked so hard when it came to football, your time, your mindset that because of that quote unquote downfall, so to speak, it led to that shame.

And I love what you said. You're a human being that plays football, not allowing identity to be tied up into other things that could lead to that shame.

I love that. The second piece I took away was always fall forward, which I'd heard that before. But the analogy that you mentioned about in football, you want to do that to gain that extra yard.

 

Jacob Brown (failforwardbrown.com)

And how does that correlate to where we are in business? How can we actually gain that extra yard through failure?

I love that.

 

Matt Zaun (mattzaun.com)

And the third The third and final piece that I took away that really got me thinking about some areas in my business and my life is what always seems perfect isn't always perfect.

I really appreciate that there's profound wisdom in that because often when things we think the stars align and it looks great you know the all the lights turn green or driving down the road it doesn't always necessarily mean it's perfect for us I appreciate you mentioning that Jacob.

So again I appreciate our time if there's if anyone listening this once they get more information on what you do they're interested in one of your keynotes your workshops your coaching where's the best place they can go to get that information.

 

Jacob Brown (failforwardbrown.com)

Yeah best place you can go is either follow me on LinkedIn. Jacob Brown on LinkedIn shouldn't be too hard to find me you can follow me connect with me there or you can go to my website which is fail forward brown.

That's fail forward brown.com there you can find all of my social media. You can follow me, connect with me and reach out to me through my website.

And I would be honored to speak and help in power and transform the minds of your team.

 

Matt Zaun (mattzaun.com)

Perfect. I will include both those links in the show notes. People can just click and go to them. Thanks again, Jacob.

I very much appreciate your time.

 

Jacob Brown (failforwardbrown.com)

Thank you, Matt. I appreciate it. And to all those that are listening, remember to feel forward.