Enroll Now

How to Embrace Creativity | Stories With Traction Podcast


SUMMARY: In this episode, Robin O’Donovan and Matt Zaun talk about how songwriters embrace creativity and how you can do the same thing when it comes to your storytelling ability.

ROBIN O’DONOVAN BIO: Robin is the founder of My Energetic Tribe Coaching, where she focuses on helping people simplify their life purpose and add to the new purpose-driven economy.  In addition, Robin is the author of The Seven Core Life Purposes, and she’s a professional Singer and Songwriter.

For more info, check out Robin HERE.

MATT ZAUN BIO: Matt is an award-winning speaker and storyteller who empowers organizations to attract more clients through the art of strategic storytelling. Matt’s past engagements have catalyzed radical sales increases for over 300 organizations that range from financial institutions to the health and wellness industry.

Matt shares his expertise in persuasion with executives, sales professionals, and entrepreneurs, who he coaches on the art of influence and how to leverage this for profits and impact.

For more info, check out Matt Zaun HERE


*Below is an AI-generated transcript, which may contain errors.


 Matt Zaun 

All right. Perfect. All right. Recording in progress. It's amazing to me that business leaders focus on innovation, but they don't spend near enough time focusing on creativity.

And there absolutely is a difference. That's why I'm so excited for today's conversation, because today I am joined by Robin O'Donovan.

Robin is the founder of my energetic tribe coaching, where she focuses on helping people simplify their life purpose and add to the new purpose.

driven economy. In addition, Robin is the author of the seven core life purposes, and she's a professional singer and songwriter.


Robin O, EnergeticTribe.com

Welcome to the show, Robin. Thank you so much, Matt. I'm so excited to be here.


Matt Zaun 

I'm excited you're here, and I'm excited you're here because I really appreciate the last conversation we had when we dove into different elements of creativity, and I wanted to unpack that on the show today.

I want to focus in on this because I feel like there are very few business leaders anywhere that would argue that innovation is important.

Everyone's trying to talk about how can they be innovators for their customers? Very few leaders are willing to latch on to creativity, or at least create an environment where their people can be creative.

Now, there are some companies, I think Google is a good example, where they do a lot to focus on creativity, and it is very much benefit at them.

But a lot of medium size. companies would never even think of focusing on creativity. I really think it is to their detriment.

So just to start off the conversation, when I say to you creativity, what's the first thing that comes to your mind?


Robin O, EnergeticTribe.com

I would say freedom, just, you know, unbounded, unfettered, you know, possibly unorganized. And that's probably why intuitively companies are, you know, leadership may, again, just might be more of a subconscious thing.

Might shy away from just giving full rain to their teams for that sense of creativity. But I agree with you.

I think there's an opportunity there.


Matt Zaun 

Yeah. So I appreciate you mentioned the freedom piece, and you also said unorganized. Okay, so if I were to say to a business later, you need to be unorganized to reach X, Y, and Z.

Right. They would not fully embrace that, right? But I do want people to recognize this because I do think from a time-saving perspective, this was absolutely gold for me and I cannot wait to talk about this with you, especially with everything you do with songwriting yourself.

When years and years ago, when I was writing a lot of speeches, and I've done a lot of speech writing for politicians, for executives, a lot of different business leaders, but primarily in the political world, when you need to write things very quickly, it was extremely agonizing for me.

It was like pulling teeth. And my wife could tell you, there were many years where there were sleepless nights.

It was brutal because you had to create masterful speeches in a very quick turnaround time. And a lot of them are high-stakes talks where individuals are gonna be communicating with people and they need to get it right.

The reason why I was so agonizing for me was because I was being too structured. So in the exact......

opposite of what you said being unorganized, I was too structured. And I was relying on what I learned in the academic world, which is stories have a beginning, a middle and an end.

And I was trying to force different messages into different blocks and be unbelievably organized, unbelievably structured. And it was to my detriment.

And then in a very unlikely place, I discovered what a lot of songwriters do. And they really embrace elements of creativity where they just start with a melody.

And then if the melody sounds good, they add words to the melody. And from there, they build it out.

So they build it out like a puzzle where I was trying to do from start to finish. They build it out like a puzzle.

And I saved a ton of time. It actually cut my ability to write speeches in a fraction of the time focusing on that.

So I want to talk about the, you mentioned unorganized, but in the draft phase and the beginning phase, we're trying to get ideas out there.

be unorganized, right? Because you just throw out and then you work on organization.


Robin O, EnergeticTribe.com

Would you agree with that? Exactly, right. And that's what I was getting at. I mean, freedom, there's several couple layers I could unpack with that.

But to explain the unorganized, and I didn't want to say disorganized because there's a different connotation to that. But to be creative, you do have to exactly what you're saying, Matt.

You're going to have more success coming from a place where you're letting go of structure for the time being.

You're letting go of expectations. You're letting go of the box that you want to fit everything into. Because at least for me, from my songwriting process, I actually really relate to what you were just saying about how the speech rating finally came through for you about piecing it together like a puzzle.

That's very similar to the way that I write songs. I, you know, the piece of the puzzle will come to me.

I call them down. downloads from my news, you know, channeling inspirations, a line or two or a concept or idea will come to me.

And then I just add to it. And, but I don't really at first sit there and go, okay, this needs to be a hip-hop song needs to be in this key.

This needs to be, you know, have this for a course. Like, I just, I just let it come. I let the story tell itself.

And then, and then out of that chaos that comes to me, I then organize that into the finished product, if that makes sense.


Matt Zaun

All right. So let's talk about, before we get to the organizing, the chaos, so to speak, let's talk about the very beginning.

So, and I want, I want you to kind of paint the picture for us because, so as an example, in my creative space, I'm standing whenever I'm working on something new for whatever reason, there's something about standing versus sitting for me, that more, it spurs on more creativity.

than desk and I use it in different ways. So right now I'm sitting, I typically do a lot of my podcast interview sitting, but when I'm working on a new speech or I'm working on other material, I'll literally put my desk to stand and I will just start speaking.

So I'm just going to start speaking about different concepts and almost like a free mapping type like perspective. Or I'm just getting a topic after topic after topic.

And then I, what you said about organized chaos, then I can zone in and focus on what needs to be focused on.

And I will challenge leaders listening to this. It's much better to have a surplus of ideas than a deficit.

That's a better problem to have a surplus versus a deficit of ideas. So you get that out, right? So I know I just mentioned like, all right, I'm standing, I'm typically in my home office, that's my creative space.

So what are you doing? Are you writing, is it pen to paper? Are you just singing? Are you standing?

Are you sitting? Are you playing the guitar? Are you playing the piano? like, what is the creativity?


Robin O, EnergeticTribe.com

Where does that creativity spark spur from? I love that question. I've never been asked that before. I, my rule of thumb, my, you know, rule that I live by is just, I mean, be in the moment and let the inspiration come when it will.

And inspiration comes to me in the car. I will pull over the car and I will type note, you know, a note on my phone, the lyric or the idea.

Yes, I have a music notebook sometimes, you know, if I'm at home, yes, I will, I will write it with a pencil, you know, so I can erase and change.

And I, yeah, it's just wherever. Sometimes I'm standing, washing the dishes. Sometimes I'm dancing. Sometimes I'm just driving. Sometimes I'm working on something or reading a blog or watching a video and it just sparks something.

So for me, I'm kind of, I don't know, I'm kind of all over the place. As an artist, I leave myself open to, you know, channel to receive inspiration.

in it anytime. So I guess I don't really have anyone, anyone, you know, posture or way that I receive it.

But I just try to be ready for that and honor it.


Matt Zaun 

Sure. Sure. So there's a lot to be said about being in the moment. I think due to our culture focused on social media and thousands and thousands of messages a day, it's becoming very, very increased difficulty as a society living in the moment.

And I think it's really important what you're saying, not only songwriters, but comedians do this very well. They live in the moment where they're constantly asking themself, where's the funny in this and every situation in life, they ask themselves, where's the funny?

Where's the, they're on the beach? Where's the funny in this? They're at the checkout line of the grocery store.

Where's the funny? They watch a mail carrier deliver mail. Where's the funny in this? And they put it in their bitch, right?

That's being in the moment. So I'm doing that too. I'm looking for the metaphor.


Robin O, EnergeticTribe.com

I'm where's the metaphor in this? Where's the lyric in this? Where's the musicality in this? I mean, obviously. because I'm a musician, but I would challenge leaders to ask that themselves.

Where's the metaphor in this? Where's the metaphor that ties to the bigger picture? That ties to our purpose, that ties to our culture, that ties to our mission.

Where's in this chaos of possibilities, where can we arc to our bigger picture? And that's where the organization comes back into the picture of creativity.

But if you don't allow space for that, you don't cultivate a culture of creativity, you're missing so many opportunities to expand your story and thereby really bringing your audience, your consumers, your clientele in even more to relate to you.


Matt Zaun 

So I just wanna put that out there. Sure, sure, and I love that. Just how you said, you're looking for metaphors, you're looking for different elements of the song.

I always challenge leaders to ask themselves, where's the story in this? Right? Where's the story in this that's going to impact my sales, my marketing, create a vibrant company culture?

Where's the story in this? And often that ties back to exactly what you're saying, which is be in the moment.

You have to be in the moment to recognize, Hey, I'm working with this client right now. It's going very well.

Where's the story in this that I can use to share with the past that if you're not in the moment you missed that and there's a lot of people missing that.

So I appreciate you, you mentioning that. So take us through the next part. You said organize chaos. So let's say I'm trying.

I love, I love like thinking in different pictures. So I'm imagining, do you have tons of notes everywhere when you're creating songs?

Do you use like a whiteboard? Do you like take us through like, what is organized or what is, yeah, what is organized chaos look like to you?


Robin O, EnergeticTribe.com

Well, I, great example is I recently have been working on. custom song project with somebody that's something else that I do, where he came in and you know he we met and he's in an industry that I just have no knowledge in and his whole thing is he's trying to bring in more artists and creators and you know help them learn the lingo so he wanted an anthem for you know for people to just really connect with the you know the story definitely just the the huge potential behind this opportunity and so he basically gave me a bunch of lines and phrases and words and I had to organize those into lyrics you know because he's not a songwriter I had to organize those into lyrics that make sense contextually progress the story and are in rhythm and they're and once it's in rhythm then I can say you see I'm kind of wheeling down whittling it out and once it's in rhythm then I can give it a melody and then I can put

backing music to it and then I can record the basic check and then I can add instruments to it and so it just becomes more and more organized and set into a product into a thing that was just, you know, ethereal a couple of weeks before so that's I just find that process really fun.


Matt Zaun 

Wow. Okay. Do you say that that process is the most time-consuming process?


Robin O, EnergeticTribe.com

It depends on the song. I mean some of my songs come to me almost whole. Like I'm sitting here laying out my process which is that's the process I have to go through if the song doesn't come to me whole.

Mostly in the last couple of years they've been downloading more and more. I know it's a good song and I would put this out there to anybody that's trying to come up with, you know, a name, you know, a brand name, a title.

Or tagline, anything like that. If it just- If it just- feels like it, when it comes to you and you're like, yeah, and it just feels like it always was.

It feels like it always existed, but it just now came into your reality, that's it. And more and more, weirdly, more and more, that's how my songs have been coming to me.

And I'm like, I feel like I'm just pulling them down from the ether almost whole. I just make a few tweaks here and there, set it to music I can almost already hear in my head.

And I guess that's a form, that's the proof of me just being more and more in my, in sync, in flow with my soul, which is one thing I teach my clients, but it's like for those, if you need a process, I had to go through that process for many, many years to reach this state of ability to be able to do that.


Matt Zaun 

So, you know, always start somewhere. Sure. All right. So before people listen to this get freaked out, they get scared based on hearing always existed, meaning how in the world do you get to that level?

I just want you to explain to us the amount of time. How many years have you been doing this?

You did not start this last year, right?


Robin O, EnergeticTribe.com

You've been doing this for quite some time. So how many years have you been doing this? Yeah, I tell you, I didn't roll out of bed as a coach or a songwriter yesterday.

I have been playing the piano since I was three.


Matt Zaun 

I've been writing songs since I was about six.


Robin O, EnergeticTribe.com

OK, so you had a recording them for about 20 years. Yeah.


Matt Zaun 

So you have a lot of reps that you put in. So I just I want people to recognize that because for me, it was very tough to come up with stories, rapid fire speed.

There's a lot of reps that go into that. I mean, I've been doing what I've been doing for over 12 years.

And at the start, for years, it was agonizing. For years, I had no process. For years, I had no framework.

I had no structure. I didn't allow myself to have that creativity, that freedom, that liberty. to get stuff out.

That was my biggest downfall for years was the start. And I know there's a lot of people listening to this.

Let's say that they are a leader that they need to go and they need to share a message with staff.

So maybe it's an all company meeting, maybe it's in person virtual and they have to do this meeting next week.

And they may be thinking themselves, what in the world am I going to say? That is very agonizing to think to yourself, what am I going to say?

Staring on a blank piece of paper or trying to write a speech out or type it up? What am I going to do?

It's very time consuming. I appreciate what you mentioned regarding the downloads and the puzzle pieces and letting go of expectations because in the beginning you have to do that.

And if you're trying to shove a square in a round hole, it's not going to work, right? You have to figure out how to let go of expectations, at least in the beginning and get to the next stage, which is that organized chaos stage.

and I appreciate you mentioning that, but also to get to the point, I just want people to recognize, get to the point where you feel like it always existed.

You got to put in the reps, you got to put in the time. It's like, it's like going to the gym and training a muscle.

What's that exactly or calling the pros?


Robin O, EnergeticTribe.com

You know, you know, delegate somebody to lead that process. And you know, you're like, you are definitely one of those.


Matt Zaun 

So yeah, sure. Sure. No, I appreciate you mentioning that. No, absolutely leaders. There's different elements that they can delegate of four leaders that they do want to be better communicators.

They do want to be a lot better at storytelling. They need to understand that they have to start somewhere and they're not going to be great overnight.

In fact, every single what I would consider masterful storyteller that I've ever coached started out pretty terrible. I mean, there are some incredible public speakers in the world that you'd be surprised how terrible they were when they started.

And now they literally hold audiences in the palm. on their hand, very engaging, riveting speeches. It doesn't come overnight.

Like there's different reps that go into that. So I appreciate you mentioning always existed. People can get to that level, but they have to put in those reps.


Robin O, EnergeticTribe.com

And I don't want to intimidate people either thinking that, you know, they've got, I mean, yes, you need to put in the reps, it definitely helps you, but let me give you a boost, all right?

Let me give you a shortcut. And that is authenticity, all right? So there's a lot of talk, you know, right now about company culture and what I think it comes down to is authenticity.

It's just so easy. If you choose to, and if you have the courage to, to be authentic, both on a personal level, on a professional level, on an organizational level, and what that does is that creates a culture where it's okay, it's allowed and encouraged to be authentic.

First of all, let alone the signal that sends to, you know, your audience. This is... is gold, but and it's going to endear them to you even more.

But what that does to empower your organization is it just takes a lot of pressure off of people. Like I talked about earlier, live up to expectations.

It allows them to play. And when you let people play from their sense of authenticity, you're going to get massive creativity.

You're going to get amazing ideas. You're going to get so much more. And it's just, I want to just throw that out there, like creating a culture of authenticity, modeling that yourself as leaders, and then expecting and allowing that from your organization is going to go a long way towards melding that process, giving that chaos that you can organize into something really beautiful.

Maybe even without, you know, calling in the pros or doing 20 years of figuring out your own process. It's just, that's what we're leaning towards right now.


Matt Zaun 

I can't emphasize that. And that was authenticity was just key. So you mentioned the comment. You said, let people play.

I just want to mention this because I know there are people listening, thinking, let people play. Where's the ROI on that?

And I mentioned Google earlier at the beginning of this conversation. I would recommend people look up. And Google has this.

Speaking of Google, you can do a Google search on it. And you can find it. Where Google sets a certain amount of time aside for each of their employees to be creative.

I would challenge people to look up the list of products and services that Google added by allowing their people to play.

I mean, it is a vast list. Like one of them being Gmail. That came from allowing one of their employees to be in a creative state, play around with different ideas.

And Gmail was born. They wouldn't have that as a certain. as a company, they didn't allow their people time to play.

It's amazing that you said that because in my workshop, I do a lot of exercises that really spur on creativity.

In the beginning, they might come across as silly, but I'm showing people how to radically cut down their time when it comes to the storytelling piece.

And it's really allowing that play. I think a really good example of this, I was recently listening to one of the writers for SNL, and I was fascinated with what she said.

She said, before, now, just to kind of paint the scene for people that aren't aware, SNL, it's rapid speed compared to other shows.

They have very, very strict time crunches to get different skits put together, right? So it's very rapid-fire. There was a lot of other shows that there's war time in Wiggle Room to get different sets and stuff together.

SNL is not that way, right? So you have a very quick turnaround time. And she said that every single scene......

and starts out as a scene that cannot be done.


Robin O, EnergeticTribe.com

It's actually impossible to do.


Matt Zaun 

It's wild. So think about this and then I want to go back to more of your process here. So she had said what they do is they get everyone in a room and they throw out ideas that are not possible.

They're just not possible and they go crazy. So again, allowing your people to play, right? Yes. Everything under the sun that you can't do, costumes that you can't build, different, you know, people are swinging in this and that and like it's just not possible.

Once they get all of those ideas out, then they focus to use your words, organize chaos and they say, okay, here's the budget that we have.

What can we do in this scenario with the budget that we have? Then they keep going further and further and they fine tuning and the reason why they do that is because if they started with something that could be done, it would take so much time to get that idea out that they start with something that can't even be done and then they start with something that can't be done.

scale back from there. And I thought that was genius to rapid fire. Yeah, I thought it was really interesting.

I love it.


Robin O, EnergeticTribe.com

I love it. And to your point, you know, I mean, I mean, you know, to expand on what I was just saying about letting people play, I wouldn't be the musician I am.

Today, I wouldn't be, you know, doing anything I was doing if I hadn't been allowed to play as a kid, I'd just play on the piano, just sit down and work out what I thought was beautiful.

That's how I first started writing. I didn't start putting words to it till a little bit later, but I, the music just flowed and I was, it was important to me to understand what notes and, you know, intervals and rhythms sounded good together.

And it was only, and then it was three years later, I was finally put to lessons, you know, but I had that beautiful period of about two, three years before that as just a tiny child getting to know this instrument on my own terms.

And it really changed my relationship with it, but rather than if I I had just started with organized lessons, sit down.

Here's this note. Here's that note. Here's how you play. If I had just started with that at age six, I'm sure it would be a very different artist today.


Matt Zaun 

That's awesome. I have to share this image just because this is so relevant to what you're saying, because this literally happened this morning.

I kid you not, you're probably not going to believe it. I have a piano in my house and my youngest is four.

I have an eight-year-old, a seven-year-old and a four-year-old. My four-year-old hopped on the piano bench this morning, and he literally looked at his older brother and said, let me pretend like I'm a famous piano player.

He just started banging on keys. This is why I went on for maybe like 10 minutes, 15 minutes and he's just banging on keys.

His older brother, of course, is clapping and pretending with him. What an awesome image where he doesn't have expectations, he doesn't care who's watching because he's just having fun.

He's just- He just wants to play more like this. He's learning the keys.


Robin O, EnergeticTribe.com

He's learning how heavy the keys are when he plays them. He just, and it's, it's very close to the age that you said that you got started.

I think you'd set it three. You started like touching keys.


Matt Zaun

So he's four years old and he's just now my wife plays piano and my son plays an instrument. So we're not that I'm in the most musically inclined family, but we do have instruments that we play, right?


Robin O, EnergeticTribe.com

So he's going to be exposed to that, but it was just really cool at that moment. No expectations just allowing for that space.

Yeah, yeah. Absolutely. It starts when, when we're kids and somehow it gets squashed when we're adults. So I would say that any organizations, any leadership team that can bring that back to the workplace, you're going to have more sticking power.

You're going to have less turnover. You're going to have more excitement. You're going to have more productivity. You're going to have just, you know, more of a following.

You just, it's just going to, I think it's just going to snowball.


Matt Zaun 

Sure. I appreciate it. For sure. Is there any specific musician that you can point to you that you feel that you've learned from?

You maybe you've adopted elements of their process. Anyone in particular that you can mention?


Robin O, EnergeticTribe.com

My favorite, my musical idol since I was like a preteen is Sting. Just there is nobody. I'm in my older 40s and there's just no almost nobody that can compare in storytelling.

And I love his voice. It's just magical to me. But I have followed Sting through his career from the police, you know, to where he is now.

And it's like he just never stops coming out with the stories. His process is different than mine. He actually has said that he likes to start with a title.

I think this is so interesting. He likes to start with a title and then build a story around that, build the song around that.

I very rarely do that because that's like that's classic song ring that's starting with a hook. That's your Nashville songwriting.

You start with a hook and you see what feeds into that, what supports the hook and then you write the rest of the song around that.

But I think in his earlier days, I don't know, he wrote every song like that. I think they were inspired like, mind were.

And what I take from Sting, especially from like sixth grade on when I was really starting to write lyrics, I do my research.

Like I take inspiration from literature. You know, he takes inspiration from books and from famous movies and from events and things like that.

And it's like, that's really cool. Like he made me research, he made me, you know, Lolita. He made me like invest in Amnesty International.

He made me like look into all, you know, all of these things that he was following at the time that he said influenced his music.

And he would go look all that up so he was completely obsessed with him. So I find that really interesting.

Staying pulling in inspiration from outside sources, you know, from your own, like starting with your own story, but also Staying I see is a master at writing someone else's story and he's he's said that in a TED talk where he's like, well Eventually I ran out of my own story, so I started borrowing other people's Lessons there, I think yeah Interesting, so you said he starts with a title Yeah, that's what he says Interesting now I want people to recognize that Even if someone has an incredible process that works for them doesn't mean that it's gonna work for you And I appreciate you mentioning that you know He starts with a title and then goes from there because it's gonna be different for different people Yeah, but again, I'm sure that there's room to play there's no expectations in the beginning right because you have to get something out But I appreciate the differences with with your process and the process that you just mentioned so thank you for sharing that Thank you another thing he does too is so it you know, this is links really

for example, of play. He's been known to have music, let's say the track of music, but right, two different songs to it, two different lyrics.

It's completely different. It's a strong song. Different title, different lyrics. He even put one in a different, slightly different keys.

It wasn't the exact same music, but it was the same music. I mean, the band performed it again, but there's a different key.

And I'm just like, that's genius, that you could get two hooks, two great hooks and two great stories out of the same music.


Matt Zaun 

I'm never heard anybody else do that. Do you think that's done to test which one people like better? Like, is there a testing process with that?


Robin O, EnergeticTribe.com

That's a great question. In the case I'm talking about, those were two B-Sides on a single album. So I think he does it to test himself.

I think he does it to challenge himself, to challenge his band. That's how I, when I first heard those two songs, that's what it came from.

For the fun of it. Yeah.


Matt Zaun 

Interesting. Yeah, I'd be interested to know about from, I guess, from the music business element on if you're going to produce more music than you need to.

What's the purpose behind it? And the only reason I'm asking that is I heard a fascinating interview years ago regarding Bob Dylan and I'm a huge fan of Bob Dylan as a lyricist.

I think he's a phenomenal lyricist. And what he said, it was a staggering number where basically, I don't want to misquote him, but essentially the amount of songs he writes is far superior to the amount of songs people recognize and know, like the amount of songs.

And again, I don't want to misquote them, but essentially take 10 songs and in order for him to get 10 songs that are on an album, there is significantly more work of songwriting that goes into it.

And the amount of songs he's written in his life. In fact, there's a search somewhere where you can search all about Dylan songs and it is mind-boggling.

How many songs does this guy's written?


Robin O, EnergeticTribe.com

Are you so prolific? Yes, yes. And you're right. And he, you know, that's true for most great songwriters. They, I mean, it's true for me.

I'm not, you know, a known, really known songwriter yet, but it's like, yeah, I've got notebooks littered, you know, and notes on my phone littered with lyrics I didn't use with songs.

I didn't really do anything with it. And with songs I used to play and I'm not into them anymore.

But you're right to get an album of 10 songs takes all it just like in business, you know, to get that down to that one story, which you could call an album, just, you know, one big novel, I guess, of stories.

To get down to that, there's a lot on the cutting room floor. There's a lot that doesn't go, it doesn't make the cut.

And part of it is warm up and part of it is feeling into the process and, and going, no, not quite that.

And part of it is going down one rabbit hole and being like, oh, that's, I didn't want to go that far down that rabbit hole.

it's just experimenting and then collecting everything up at some point and going, what is my overlying message here? You know, what is my story arc?

What am I, what's my legacy with this, you know, I always say product, but if it's an album, what's my legacy I want to put forth with this album?

And that's where you start making the decisions, okay, well then what doesn't fit into that? It's got to go, you know, and we all do well to do, really edit our life that way honestly.


Matt Zaun 

Sure, that's a really good point. Thank you. I appreciate you mentioned that and I really appreciated this conversation. Thank you.

I know you're extremely busy, so thank you so much for your time. There's three things that I'm going to take away from this conversation.

I know people listening play got a lot more than this, but I got three specifically. Is the first, is I, I really appreciate your definition of creativity.

You say creativity is freedom. You say sometimes it's unorganized, letting go of expectations. and allowing for those downloads. Those are those puzzle pieces.

I really appreciate that. Then I appreciate what you talked about regarding organized chaos, what it looks like once you do allow those downloads to come.

And then I appreciate what you mentioned regarding company culture, because I do think a lot of companies are talking about this now.

They're just not focusing on it. It's one thing to say it. It's another thing to allow people to have that authenticity, allow their people to play, not focus as much on the ROI right out of the gate, but setting parameters, allowing people to play and the ROI will come based on all these these these a surge of creativity ideas that are going to come.

So thank you for sharing that. If people want to get more information on what you do, Rob, and maybe they want to reach out to you, where's the best place that they can go to do that?


Robin O, EnergeticTribe.com

Sure. Thank you so much, Matt. My website is energetictribe.com. And there you can find out more about what I do.

I'm a life purpose coach. And I want to. If I can touch really quick on great interview you did with Richard Gonzales.

So I was it's back talking about company culture. And, and you all brought up the fact that company culture isn't something that you check in with every month or every quarter.

It's a daily process. He said, it's a, you know, it's like your metabolism. It's like you've got to eat every day.

It's part of what feeds the company. And to that end, I just want to tie that in a little bit to, you know, what I do, which is I'm a life purpose coach.

And I'm, you know, I'm the, I, my message is the same thing. It's like, you don't just claim your life purpose and then be like, well, there we go and go back to living the way that you were living.

You, it's something that you integrate every day into your life. So you can wake up every morning and be like, this is what I do.

This is my energetic tribe that I serve. This is who I'm on fire to serve. And this is my signature story that has led me to where I am right now.

allows me to be the lighthouse that I want to be to lead this tribe. And I think that's applicable to the individual, to the entrepreneur, to the corporations, to the leaders.

I am seeing a huge part of what drew me to that work. I'm seeing a huge movement now of people not being okay with not knowing where the organization is going or where they stand in terms of their culture, where they stand in terms of their purpose.

And as you mentioned at the beginning, I am here building the new purpose-driven economy. And I love this conversation today because to me, life is a song.

Everything comes down to a song which is, you know, a song is the most primal, elemental form of story.

It is the hallmark of a culture. And any way that I can help inspire songwriting, creativity of any kind to, you know, come back into every-

everybody's life in everyday life. That's, I have a privilege and honor to do so. So thank you so much for this conversation to connect our two worlds now.


Matt Zaun 

Absolutely, thank you. I appreciate your time. I'll include your website link in the show notes. And again, thank you so much, Robin.


Robin O, EnergeticTribe.com

I very much appreciate it. Thank you.


Want weekly updates...

to take your storytelling
to a whole new level?