Positioning, Presence, Proof: The New Playbook for Aspiring Speakers | Stories With Traction Podcast

SHOW NOTES:

In this episode, Matt Zaun sits down with talent agent and founder Monique Sar to unpack what it really takes for executives, founders, and high performers to break into the professional speaking world. Monique represents speakers and influencers, helping them land deals and build speaking careers, and she doesn’t sugarcoat the process.

They talk about why your past success in business doesn’t automatically translate into high speaking fees, why “getting your reps in” matters more than your résumé, and how to position yourself so event organizers actually understand what you speak about and why they should book you.

 

*Below is an AI-generated transcript, which may contain errors

 

Matt Zaun 

Monique, welcome to Stories of Attraction podcast.

 

Monique Sar 

Thank you so much for having me today. Thanks for your time.

 

Matt Zaun 

I really appreciate it. And the first question I want to start with is when you're at a networking event or party and someone asks you, what do you do?

What's your response? Oh, gosh, that's a good question.

 

Monique Sar 

And it's funny because I love networking events, but I'm like an introvert at heart. So it's like, but when I met with that question, I always let people know that I work on the talent side.

So I represent speakers, influencers, help them get their brand deals. And then if we do get deeper into the conversation after some back and forth and stuff, then I do tell them I'm also a founder.

have my own agency. But I always lead with the talent side. It's definitely the more fun part about what I do.

 

Matt Zaun 

For sure. And I'm Appreciate you mentioning that. Now, there's a lot of interest with people utilizing your services, right?

I mentioned to you before our recording, I work with a lot of C-suite executives, and a lot of them aspire to be speakers.

They really want to be thought leaders, and they're very mindful of branding. So what would be some early steps that you would recommend for, let's say, a business leader that wants to transition into that thought leadership world?

 

Monique Sar 

What are some points that you would say, like, this is where you absolutely need to start? A hundred percent.

I definitely think that everyone needs to get their reps in, right? And so if you haven't spoken in front of an audience before, you know, you might have to do a couple of these things for free.

You know, you might have to volunteer for these opportunities and just get your reps out there, but it's not all for waste, right?

You would do this more from a positioning standpoint because you'll be able to learn, like, you know, who's my message actually for and what does the audience actually like, right?

We think about, like, you know, when people are, like, trying to do stand-up comedy for the first time, right?

They have to tell some jokes. might not always land. And so that's what doing these reps are more important for as well, because you can also use some of that content for creating your speaking reel.

That's definitely number one. So if you're getting into this for the first time, you need to have a speaking reel.

And it can help you really refine your message and just craft what exactly you want to say and what you want to end it with.

So I've worked with many speakers that never could, they had a really, really great talk, but when they got to the ending, they could never really land the plane.

And so this is a really good thing that you can start to practice and focus on too, instead of just like ending it with Q&A, you should always end it.

So you have the last word, right? And, you know, someone's not asking like, what's your favorite flavor ice cream?

 

Matt Zaun 

That is so important. And that is something that I always tell people never end with Q&A, because you never know what's going to be asked.

And you could have an incredible session, and then someone's going to raise their hand, you. As That's a good question that doesn't really have anything to do with what you just said.

And that's what people are going to remember, which is not good. So I really appreciate you mentioning that's a really, really important point.

You mentioned get the reps in. I want to dig a little bit deeper into this because this is so important.

This is something a lot of people want to avoid. It's uncomfortable just because it takes time. It takes dedication.

And it could be really flustering to people. You know, one of the things I talk about quite often, I mentioned a few times on this podcast, is early on in my speaking career, it was really tough, really tough.

And I was not good at connecting with people. I really struggled with communication. And I was basically, you know, this isn't me sharing all aspects of my story, but I basically, I became a professional speaker almost by accident, right?

And one of the things that I did to get over this is I gamified embarrassment. I think this is so important.

It's basically, I made a game out of embarrassing myself. I said, If I have to go through these reps, I'm literally going to set a goal to make sure that I consistently put myself in positions to embarrass myself.

So I whiteboarded it. I had a whiteboard, and every single week I had to put myself in a situation that I knew I was going to be embarrassed.

And what happened was it really fast-tracked my ability to learn how to connect with people. And as you know, often it takes – like for someone to be like an incredible speaker, an exceptional world-class speaker, it could take five to seven years if they're just poking it with a stick or they're just doing a few talks here and there.

What if you could fast-track that? What if you could fast-track that in one to two years? And a lot of that comes into how many reps are you willing to go through?

And for me, that was that exercise. That was embarrassing myself to the point where I got so good in those moments that I was – when I was up in front of a room full of executives, it was a cakewalk because, you know, the night before I might have been in

Like a really flustering stand-up comedy situation. And I completely bombed, right? So that was really important for me. I also read recently, as in a couple of days ago, and I found this fascinating.

So, you know, Frank Sinatra, and this is just one example. We can give multiple examples as far as musicians, different artists.

But Frank Sinatra, the percentage of hit songs that he had in the world was nothing compared to how many songs.

That he actually wrote. 1,200 songs Frank Sinatra wrote and sang, and only a fraction of them became hit. So think of all the reps, even musicians have to go through to get these hit songs.

So based on a couple, like, reps, you mentioned, you know, sometimes you might have to speak for free or whatever the case may be.

What are some other, like, practical steps outside of pro bono talks and speaker reels? What are some other practical steps someone does?

Can do that they can build a process out of getting some of these reps in?

 

Monique Sar 

Yeah, 100%. I think a lot of it too is also showing up on social media, right? So like even just going live and just hitting that record button and just like, you know, coming up and just speaking freely, right?

I feel like with a lot of the individuals that I work with, whether it be like, you know, founders or executives as well, you know, you have to, you know, even though you have all this experience, you do have to check your ego at the door.

Because you're essentially starting over at this one, this one new thing. And it is definitely something that is going to be uncomfortable.

So I'm glad that you mentioned that as well, because definitely very brave and kudos to you for doing that.

Because I don't, I feel like a lot of people still come into the speaking space with their ego, you know, and they have to remember that, hey, they're kind of starting over at this point.

So I definitely think showing up on social media and then just coming live and just, you know, like sharing your message, that's a great way to put in your reps.

And if you could just show up every day, 10 minutes, 15 minutes a day, that's definitely.

 

Matt Zaun 

They've it all in their specific industry, so maybe they're a titan of wherever they are in business, a particular business, and then they have a desire to help more people, they have a desire to connect with people and get up on stage and share their experiences, share their stories, the wisdom that they've amassed over the years.

And I think it's a big wake-up call for some people because I think it can be a very humbling experience, and I've heard a lot of stories from individuals that they're just so successful in one area of their life, and then they get in the speaking world and they're frazzled by it.

It's a completely different industry, and as you know, there's a big difference between the craft, the skill set of speaking, and then the actual business of speaking, so I think that's interesting in and of itself.

But are there any stories that you can point to or any things that you've seen in your line of work where you were working with someone that was wildly talented, they wanted to be a speaker?

And then maybe they did a couple of their first keynotes, and it was just a really rude wake-up call for them.

And obviously, you don't need to mention names, but any situation that could point to to kind of give people a little bit of grace on themselves, if this is something that they have interest in going into, that it's not going to be easy right off the bat.

 

Monique Sar 

So anything that you can point to? Yeah, 100%. And this happened to several individuals I've worked with, actually, that are just now stepping into the speaking circuit.

I feel like a big part that they run into where it's that wake-up call for them is that they basically come into the speaking world thinking that they can demand this fee just because, like, you know, they've done X, Y, Z, right?

But maybe this is one of the first big stages that they've stepped on, and maybe they do end the talk with Q&A.

And the last question is, what is your favorite flavor of ice cream, right? And that's what they're known for.

But anyways, like, they ended up finding out about these things. And I feel like it happens very, early on because when they're offered this X number fee, which is probably half or even less of what they were demanding or thinking that they could command, it's because they didn't have that experience.

They didn't have like previous talks that they could share. And maybe they didn't do so well on that initial planning call or that pitch call where they are meeting with the initial decision makers.

You have to really like wow them on that first call as well. And you have to be able to really position yourself.

And I don't feel like they've maybe done a good job of that where when they're meeting with those initial bookers, it's not always the people that are making the decision.

So those bookers have to go back and sell it to their team because it might be an entire committee or a board that's making that final decision.

And there might be somebody in the background who's just like, okay, so what do they actually talk about? What are they actually known for?

And if that booker can't sell them, right? Then, you know, this is where there could be that disconnect and this is where it.

Leaves that gap in their mind where it was just like, okay, why am I not able to get this fee when I've done like XYZ?

I've sold and exited this business, right? Like again, that experience doesn't always convert here in this space because if I know what I always tell them, it's like, hey, if you think about how you built your past business and how you became so wildly successful in that, you have to think about like, you know, all the work that it took in the early stages to get there.

You have to build like an entirely new relationships to get there. It's very, very similar on the speaking circuit as well.

You have to build all of those relationships all over again, and people have to get to know you and know what you stand for.

And you have to have a little bit of that experience and the speaking reels and those reps, you know, for us to be able to trust that, you know, you can get awarded that higher fee, if that makes sense.

 

Matt Zaun 

Yeah, it makes complete sense. And it's interesting just seeing the development of the speaking world over the years. And I feel like, you know, decades ago, information was king, right?

Like someone that knew something and they can get on stage and very... With everything that they knew, the problem is today, like, information's cheap, right?

Like, everyone has access to information in the palm of their hand. And then I feel like there was this transition that it went from problem to solution, right?

So a company might have a problem, or maybe a company's sending their employees to a conference that's addressing certain problems, and you had speakers, and they had solutions to problems.

I think the challenge today is with AI technology, there's a lot of different solutions that we can iron out with different problems that we have.

So you can correct me if I'm wrong, but I feel like today, transformation is so important, right? If a speaker could get on stage, regardless of what kind of talk they're doing, whether it is a keynote or a workshop, they can get on stage and have this transformational change where, yes, there's information, but it's also highly engaging.

It is, it's entertaining, right? I know sometimes people don't want to talk about that, but if you can capture someone's attention and hold it, sometimes even for hours.

And it's entertaining, but it has that information, it has an abundance of transformation. I think that's what's going to really set people apart.

So can you speak to kind of where you see the speaking industry going based on, let's say, AI technology, on that transformation piece that I talked about?

If you were to predict, and I know it's tough to actually predict the future, but if you were to just talk about what you see happening on the horizon the next few years as it pertains to the speaking world, what do you think is going to happen?

 

Monique Sar 

Yeah, 100%. I think you hit the nail on the head. It's that transformation piece, because that's the same thing that I'm sharing with the speakers that I work with as well.

Because I do believe that it's a combination of your positioning, your presence and your proof, right? And so with your positioning, it's definitely making sure that obviously, you know, positioning is what gets you paid, right?

Presence is what gets you seen. And the proof is what, you know, like what everybody needs to finally like make that decision and get over the finish line.

And so coming back to this whole piece about with AI technology. I do agree. Like AI is making information and education so easy for people to capture.

And I think that it's a combination of these three things because obviously if you've got the presence, like, okay, you know, if you're working on also building up your online presence and you're becoming like a big name, that is like a little bit of a star factor that also helps.

And it really comes back to this transformation as well, where it's the combination of these three things where the transformation is what's actually going to leave that continued impact.

So after, you know, they come and hear you speak, you know, yes, it's going to be really great energy in those moments, but what happens like three weeks later, three months later, right?

Some of that can die down. And this is where that transformation and that continued impact really, really is important.

So a big thing of what I'm seeing right now with speakers is that they also have something to carry on, right?

Where it doesn't, like, this is just the beginning. This talk is the beginning. So if there is something that they can offer that is, you know, to be able to carry on that continued impact, whether it be.

Like a guided book or maybe an online course or something like that, or even like consulting hours that they can have like to have coming in or even like additional webinars after the fact.

It's kind of like bundling this into your talk. So this is something that I've definitely seen as a theme, especially like coming into the future years.

I think it's going to be something to carry on because everybody can get everything on AI now. So how are you going to stand apart and how are you going to stand apart from other speakers too that may come in as like, you know, the star factor and they already have like a really big name.

But when you're thinking about the combination of these three things, the positioning, the presence and the proof, I think that's going to be a really great recipe for success if you're wanting to explore the speaking circuit in the future.

 

Matt Zaun 

Yeah, I can't agree more. And it's interesting that you mentioned like after the session concludes or after the keynote, because I would say in the last five years, the amount of people that have asked me for what was the post work or what can we do after the session concludes has skyrocketed, right?

Because people want to. People want the topics that were talked about, the concepts, be reinforced through almost like a continuing education-type program.

So I think that's really important. So this is a very unique world, the speaking world. And I'm curious just to kind of see the timeline and how you got into this.

And I want to backtrack a little bit. And maybe this can kind of speak to what positioned you to maybe get a couple of your first jobs and then your business and everything.

I like to go back to the teen years because I think the teen years are so important. So if I were to hit the rewind button and I were to ask, let's say, 13-year-old Monique what she wanted to do, what she wanted to be, what kind of response would I have gotten in return?

 

Monique Sar 

Yeah. So coming, you know, born and raised with an immigrant family, what are immigrant parents telling you to do all the time, right?

They're like, study hard, go to get a good, you know, get a good degree, go to school and get a good job, right?

And so I was really, really. Tied into just wanting to succeed and be, you know, a CEO of something.

But I thought I had to do that through the corporate ladder and things like that. And then once I kind of like, you know, got into college and after graduating from high school, my mom was really, really adamant that I didn't work during school.

And so she was really wanting me to study and just focus on that. But obviously, like, you know, I see my friends like getting all the cool things and I'm like, I still need some money to keep up with them.

Right. And so I think I, you know, growing up and going through all of that, I had a lot of identity issues as far as like just trying to figure out who I wanted to be.

Right. So I tried really hard to just fit in where I could. But with that being said, since I wasn't allowed to work per se, I kind of started my own business behind my mom's back.

So I started a photography business and I was doing photo shoots after school for for people in the car community.

And so I was just taking pictures of their cars, got into a couple of car magazines, which is pretty cool.

But anyways. Through that experience and just learning that, I always had those entrepreneurial skills and mindset. When I finally was able to work and my mom was like, okay, after I told her and confessed to her that I had my own business going on as well, she was like, okay, well, I guess you've kind of proven that you can manage this.

She's kind of got the tiger mom going on. I was recruiting at the time because this is when the job market was not doing very, very good, trying to date, I'm dating myself here.

And so around that time, they were the only ones that were hiring. And so I got my teeth kicked in really early on trying to learn more about the door-to-door sales world.

And I feel like that was a really, really great stepping stone as I stepped into my career. So leading into that, went into finance, had my own practice in wealth management and financial planning.

Became one of the top 10. Female advisors in the Western region in terms of like book of business and number of clients.

So definitely did really well there. And so when I finally wanted to make that leave though, oh my gosh, it was like a movie moment where celebrating our colleagues' 50th anniversary at the firm.

And all of a sudden I was just like, oh my gosh, I don't know if this is what I want to do for the rest of my life.

And so excuse myself, went to the bathroom, looked in the mirror, and I'm like, is this really what I want to do for the rest of my life?

And very, very movie moment, you know? So it took me about six to eight months to finally leave. So when I left, I went into the marketing world and this was around the time of the pandemic.

And so after that, I don't know if you're familiar with that app called Clubhouse.

 

Matt Zaun 

Sure, absolutely. I was on Clubhouse for quite some time.

 

Monique Sar 

Yeah, yeah.

 

Matt Zaun 

I love that app.

 

Monique Sar 

And when it first came out, I did spend a very, very, very disgusting amount of time on that app.

I think I spent like 60 hours the first week on that app. But that was like my claim to fame.

So Yahoo Finance did an article on me being one of the top business and And I'm like, yeah, absolutely.

I don't know what we're doing, but I'm down, you know, because I've always like really admired him and looked up to him and he was a professional speaker.

And so he was the one who kind of opened it up to me to start managing the talent and working with professional athletes, UFC fighters, Olympic gold medalists, top executives, just individuals that have achieved like the top 1% of what they do.

So being around high performers, again, that was really exciting for me. But I was kind of learning as I was going, like learning about the speaker circuit.

So I'm like, wait, you can get paid how much to talk for one hour? Like this is nuts, right?

And so now that I'm like really deep in this space, I'm so passionate about it. But if you were to ask my teenage self, like if I would ever be in this space now, like there would be no way.

 

Matt Zaun 

Wow. All right. So there's so much to unpack with what you said. So you mentioned Clubhouse. I have to just say this.

I was on Clubhouse for quite some time as well. And I don't view it as a waste of time because you also mentioned get your reps in.

So what happened on Clubhouse was I was on Clubhouse and every week I would do like an hour on Clubhouse where I would send out invites and there was a bunch of people that come in the Clubhouse room.

And then after a while, a good friend of mine who was doing podcasting said, Matt, you got to launch a podcast.

So you got to get – you have to make sure this is recorded and it has some staying power because at the time you couldn't record Clubhouse meetings or rooms, whatever they called them.

But it really speaks to getting the reps in, right? There's all kinds of different things we do in life that get certain reps in that can transfer into other avenues.

But you also mentioned something that I have to dig a little deeper on because at the very beginning of this conversation, you mentioned you are an introvert at heart.

Yeah. And then you mentioned door-to-door sales. Oh, So I can only imagine the anxiety. How uncomfortable you might have been.

talk to us a little bit more of that because you also mentioned, you know, again, get the reps in.

mean, what a great way to get reps in and handle a ton of rejection.

 

Monique Sar 

I mean, if you want to get rejected quite often, go into door-to-door sales. So talk to us a little bit more about that.

 

Matt Zaun 

Oh, 100%. I'm glad you caught on to that.

 

Monique Sar 

I feel like most people don't really catch that. Yeah, it was definitely an experience, that's for sure. But I think it was from this resilience that I had very early on and being born and raised in an immigrant family, right, where they're like, you have to work hard.

You have no choice. And that's kind of what I thought it was. And there would be days where I would just be so defeated.

And I would like, you know, I'd cry about it because it's just like, you know, very emotional for me too.

But I kind of took it as like, there's no other choice. And what I found out about myself too is I'm highly motivated by recognition.

And the sales team leader that I had at the time caught that. And I really thank him for that, for really catching that as well, because he would...

Like, out, like, you know, when we would get our wins and stuff, and you would have, like, all of our sales metrics, like, posted so everybody else could see it.

And, you know, even though I was always, the really, really quiet one, I would really, really appreciate, you know, like, when I was actually winning, like, I would be so unassuming and no one would ever catch that.

And I think that's the part that really, really drove me. And I started to, like, really get that ingrained in myself.

Even when I was, like, getting interviewed for my first job, when I was trying to be, go into finance and wealth management, right?

I found out later, like, after I did well, like, in that training class, I found out later that the organization gets four bogeys, right?

And so I was one of the bogeys because I failed the personality test. Like, everything on paper said, like, there was no way I was going to be successful.

But out of my training class of eight people, I was the last one standing. And I was the one that – I was the first female in my office to hit this one benchmark that no other woman was able to do.

And so that was pretty cool to hear it in my mention. At the time told me, it's like, yeah, you know, you actually are one of the bogeys.

I was like, oh, that's interesting. Because when I got invited to leadership later, when I learned about that, I was one of the ones they took a chance on.

And so I think it just kind of came from like this resilience of just understanding like I have no other choice, right?

And just kind of pushing myself through that. I think that that was probably the one thing I would attribute it to the most.

 

Matt Zaun 

Interesting. Are you motivated when people count you out and they think you can't do something?

 

Monique Sar 

Yeah. Oh, absolutely. And I think that's what happened too in one of those leader team meetings. My mentor told me, though, he's like, hey, you're on the chopping block.

They don't think you're going to make it. And then when I found out, I was like, oh, I'm – and that was the year I hit that benchmark where no other woman had done it.

 

Matt Zaun 

Interesting. So what do you think – I know it's different for – I mean, it's not one size fits all.

It's not cookie cutter with this response. But what do you think separates – because you mentioned immigrant family a few times.

What do you think separates? Because there have been numerous individuals on this. Podcasts that have come from immigrant families, and they're wildly successful, right?

They just roll up their sleeves. They figure it out. And based on everything you said, I mean, you mentioned finance and booking speakers, and you mentioned door-to-door sales and car photography, right?

All these different things. What do you think separates an immigrant family from a family that just kind of grew up in, let's say, the U.S.

from an ambition perspective? Yeah.

 

Monique Sar 

I think my stance on this is definitely thinking about how, like, I remember my grandparents and my mom always just reminded my brother and I that this is an opportunity that we are very, very blessed to have and definitely really seizing that opportunity, right?

And when I think about it, there were instances, like there was another internship that I had in finance where there was a guy who looked like Justin Bieber who got the promotion over me.

And I was just like, wait, wait.

 

Matt Zaun 

I want to dive a little bit deeper into that hard work piece. So it wasn't always about hard work.

I think it's so cliche for someone to hear, like, you got to work hard, got to work hard, right?

Obviously, hard work is an important part of the equation. But it's interesting that there's a lot of other things, a lot of other puzzle pieces that might go into someone succeeding.

And, you know, likability is so important. I think it's so not – I don't want to say underutilized, but I don't think people think enough about the likability factor.

You I had mentioned to you – I might have mentioned to you that my background was in politics for quite some time.

was a political speechwriter. I was involved in debate prep, town hall preparation. worked with many, many politicians. Likability is so important.

You can have the best policy ideas ever thought of, and you can work your guts out. But if no one likes you, it's going to be very difficult to win elections.

It's going to be very difficult to stay in office.

 

Monique Sar 

And I love this conversation because I feel like it definitely spans a lot greater in a sense, right? Because we live in a world where like there's so much out there and you can get access to anything like right away, right?

And so like how do you stand out in those things? And it comes back to like that whole paradox of choice too, right?

Where it's like there's so many different options and so many different things out there. It's like you have no excuse not to be successful or to try to make it.

But what I think it really comes down to in like standing out is just being able to come back to being human first.

And so I feel like there's so much there with like the online and showing up and doing all the different things.

And it actually forces us to be really siloed and away from people. And I always say like I'm a much bigger fan of like belly button to belly button sales, right?

And I've shared with you like, you know, these are like the first podcasts, you know, that I'm doing as well, just trying to get my message out there too.

But it's because like I'm still out there doing things in person. I much prefer just like shaking hands and meeting people in person.

And I that's Putting myself in those positions of meeting the individuals in this world. And so I would say for the speakers, like wanting to get into this that are definitely, you know, they're not focused on just the hard work.

I would bring it back to like being human first, right? And putting yourself in those positions where you are able to network and meet more of these individuals.

So I would say there's a lot of like conferences and events that are set up for meeting professionals and meeting executives, right?

Where their whole thing is like planning events and planning conferences. And you can totally attend these conferences yourself and be in those places where you can actually meet these people.

You can go to the happy hours. You can actually connect with these people because everybody that's going there wants to meet people too.

So I feel like trade shows are definitely a really easy way to do that. And it brings it back to just like that human connection.

I think that's why everyone loved Clubhouse so much because we could actually like talk to people again. But this is just taking it one step further.

Right. It's just like, you we're spending all this time being online, but I think if you can stand out and just like take it offline for a bit, I think that's that's one thing that could be really helpful.

 

Matt Zaun 

That's a really good point. Thank you for sharing that. I appreciate it. And thank you for this conversation. I appreciate everything that you shared a ton of value in this episode.

There are a few things in particular that I'm going to remember. The first thing that you had mentioned is get the reps in.

And you specifically said, check your ego at the door. So, so important for people to recognize, because I think I do think that when we learn how to be successful in one area, we could be successful in another.

But often we do need to check our ego at the door that we might have to start over almost in a sense in another area that we're not used to.

Right. I think that anyone that wants to get in the speaker world, regardless of how successful they might have been in another industry or business, it's really important that they need to get those reps in.

So I appreciate that point. The second thing that you said. And I like the alliteration of it. You said positioning, presence, and proof.

Really important. And then the third and final thing that I think people should just continue to think about more, and there's a lot of wisdom in it, is being human first.

And I was just thinking and reflecting on what that would mean for me. I do find it fascinating that I connect with people more over my mistakes and fears versus my successes and my triumphant experiences.

And that's part of being human, right? Being vulnerable, having that authenticity, saying where we've messed up, talking about – like people love struggle victory stories, right?

So if we were on the wrong path and someone helped us get on a better path, people love connecting over that stuff.

So I really appreciate all the wisdom that you shared. If someone wants to get more information on you, what you do, where's the best place that they can go to get that information?

 

Monique Sar 

Yeah, so LinkedIn would be great, or Instagram would also be another one, at MoniqueSar.com.

 

Matt Zaun 

Perfect. I will include that in the show notes. People could just click and go from there. Thanks again, Monique, for the conversation.

Really appreciate your time today.